王懿泉=W

戴陈连=D

W: 初到翠竹，那年那情那景，是如何？

D: 十二年前我第一次到的翠竹，记得是坐火车，先从杭州坐到广州，然后从广州去深圳，广州到深圳这一段路程坐的是在当时看起来很时尚的动车，那时候其他城市都还没有动车，除了沿途不断飞过的亚热带植物，车上人的面部骨骼也是非常地域特征的，让我第一次感受到了南方的气息。整个人都是湿漉漉的，有点像第一次恋爱的感觉，激动，陌生，不知道未来。 去深圳当时是因为谈了个女友，她就住在翠竹一带，那时候模糊记得有些高高的小区住宅楼，阳光都很好。树木高大挺拔，枝繁叶茂得有点夸张，像日本A片中的男女主角欲望十足，表演性极强。然后我还带了自己的油画一路拎着拿过去，那时快递公司没有那么发达，只有中国邮政，我怕他们弄坏了画，才想着自己拿过去。 大部分时间我就在翠竹的超市买菜买日用品，然后在茶餐厅吃下午茶。经常坐车去某一个地方，看到很低的云，有时感觉都在树梢上一样，这是我印象最深的，好像就是在等待一片云。

W: 翠竹，这个社区，给你带来了怎样的有形无形的影响？为何让你挂念？

D: 翠竹这个区域我以前住过一阵，当时活动的范围也以这个为中心，不是去翠竹就是去华强北，记得是这么两点一线的走。翠竹有很多餐厅，我会找到口味中意的那几家，然后就在那几家店里轮流来回吃，没事的时候就多待会，坐着想一会要做的事。现在我都能想起某一天的风有多大，那街角的妇女是以什么样的姿势在我的视线里最终消失。生活总是靠那些点滴的细节让你连接成回忆，当然主要那些点滴里都有爱。

W: 你怎样看待爱情？

D: 爱情就是清澈的小溪静静流淌你没有关注它的时候它却早就在你身旁，爱情就是油画颜料和丙烯、水、泥浆一起混合，爱情就是不知道前方的旅行，爱情就是你很有可能负伤流血还像豹子那样迅速的冲击。爱情，这是个多么美妙的词语啊。

W: 有的艺术家需要情感的刺激而创作，你需要吗？

D: 我其实是需要的，有些是自己亲身体验得来的情感刺激，有些是朋友、陌生人的描述那里得到的感受，还有就是看小说看诗歌时的体验，也有非常丰富的刺激。我热衷于观察一些极其细微的东西，是最终达到饱满情感这个状态的起始点。

W: 城市（环境和空间、都市生活方式）对你的艺术创作有怎样的、多大的影响？如果不在城市中，你还能创作吗？

小时候会经常和外婆一起在农村度过，那时候记忆中就是大片大片的田野和荒地，都是矮矮的黑瓦白墙的房子，觉得土地和天空占的面积很大，小小的我感觉到一天内不可能从这一边到达那一边，于是经常今天在这一个角落玩耍，明天又去另外一个角落帮外婆拎茶水。外婆就在田间锄地，插秧。他们渴了我就拿出印有蓝边的白瓷碗给他们倒茶水，这个时候我就觉得空间变小了，时间变慢了，因为是在局部的一个事情里吧。也就是专注程度的变化能让我对周围空间的感受变得很不一样。说农村其实是因为农村是我小时候认为的“城市”，以为只有一种地方，它在最初的时候让我对环境和空间有了一些基本的感受。等我要上小学了才去了城市，我对具体的地理位置很感兴趣，后来就在农村和城市之间来回，假期了就去农村待上一阵，然后又回到城市，这对我后来理解城市空间以及人们生活的方式就有了很多的比较。我觉得和这些相关或相连的还是人，在创作中地理位置的改变对我有影响，但关注人的问题一直没有变。我会较多考虑人和当地环境的存在关系，细致地观察和体会是了解进入这种关系的渠道，同时他们也在不停地激发我。所以不管农村或者城市我都可以按照自己感兴趣的问题去深入了解和研究。

W: 美术学院教会了你什么？

D: 说到美术学院，其实还是和我相遇的那些具体的人有关系。对当代艺术的启蒙都是在那些朋友那里，在他们家里看到一些资料有兴趣的就会翻一翻，也经常听朋友说这个作品那个作品，也会和他们谈论一下。平时看书，那时不用vpn直接可以上网查很多资料，就是这么一点一点的积累我才知道自己喜好什么，可以怎么开始做作品，如何判断一个作品的好坏等等问题。当时朋友也给了我很大的鼓励和支持，后来开始做作品开始做剧场节开始策展都离不开当时美院这些给予帮助和启发我的老师、朋友。

W: 这次在深圳巧遇翠竹女士，是怎样的一种人生体验，说说。

D: 才知道惊心动魄这个词语的含义，相遇的那刻就仿佛是时间定格，身体有很强烈的反应但言语处于阻塞状态，基本就是个内脏表演，情绪非常复杂。这个作品进行到离双年展结束还有四天的时候，我照着原来的旧址去试试，不抱任何希望的去找，以为那么多年了估计早就搬迁了，但居然翠竹原来的店铺还在，一开始都不好意思直接往店内看，在走廊里走过去走过来，手还遮着脸部完全不敢看，紧张过后我就叫随行的朋友替我进去看看是谁在里面，等朋友出来后就知道里面只有一个店员，翠竹（化名）没在。于是我就慢慢挪着步子走进去，走到门口立刻就感觉很多的榴莲砸过来，因为我给她当时画的画就在进去的正中间挂着，画面内容是她店铺的商标，油画材料画的，基本没有变色。这个场景真的让我大脑眩晕，犹如一万只苍蝇在我头部回旋。紧接着就是几千个榴莲炮弹一样丢过来，完全不知反应。后来得知这个月底店铺就要搬迁，这估计也是天注定的。见了面之后我也告诉她此行的目的是来参加深圳戏剧双年展，给她做一个作品，文字我也给她看了。想说的道歉也没有说出口，都是用自己的行动在和她说着道歉，她每天都有很多事情要处理，很多的工作需要完成。她在这方面特别宽容，只是淡淡地说我这次出现怎么神出鬼没的，怎么突然来找她。在内心我已经是很开心了，就帮忙做点能做的小事，就像很多年没有见的老朋友。不管怎样我都觉得自己是如此幸运。

W: 你这次的创作过程是怎样的？ 你这次的创作方法是怎样的？

D: 在没去深圳之前我就开始翠竹小说的撰写，同时开始微信朋友圈的图文记录、编辑。都以“翠竹笔记”作为短文的开始，微信上发送的只是一些片段的感受，对现场的记录和联想，还有是对记忆本身的图文编辑，总共发布的有37篇翠竹笔记。

从3.19 – 3.28 这个时间段，观众每天下午1点在我住的宾馆大厅集合，然后我带着他们一起去事先设计好的地点去寻找翠竹，我们有时坐地铁有时打车有时走路，我们彼此交谈各自对于深圳的理解，谈我们的生活也谈我们的情感。有时会用整个下午的时间带观众去翠竹大厦那边静静等待一片云，到了目的地之后朋友们就聊天，聊他们最近发生的事也说彼此的工作，渴了就买点水和饮料，站累了就席地而坐，一会又看看路边的风景，像一次有目的但不知道结果的春游，这个状态大约有两小时，本来满天白云的天空阴沉下来，太阳躲进了云层瞬时变成阴天，这时有朋友说云来了，当时我什么也没说带他们又走向回去的路。某一天又和观众一起去以前住过的小区，凭着十分模糊的记忆去随便走走，看到想起来的记忆中的事我就和他们说一说，很多时候记忆也是相互编织，自己也是凭借对建筑物的提示慢慢地回忆，有时看到一个场景一个物件感觉似曾相识，但想不起来曾经在那个地点说过的话，像电影里的慢镜头，缓缓的但都没有语言。过了几天就找到了翠竹，接下去的那些天都是围绕着她要开米粉店而做的工作，买材料，布置店铺，修饰店铺里的摆件等等直到开张，翠竹小说中有一段是舞狮的场景，原来找了一个城中村的大排档门口来实施，象征意义上的给翠竹。后来随着情况的变化而变化，觉得这个舞狮表演用在米粉店的开张是最合适了，开张完翠竹项目也就暂时结束了一个段落。

这次在创作方法上将事件的发展由事先设定的情境来一步步推演，从一个记忆跳转到一个时间，从一个时间连接到一个现实的行动，事件的制造和现实表演的相互编织让时间和时间之间的重叠重新被激活散发并置交错。这样的设置让观看的方式也随之改变，观众和我之间变得极其模糊，我们相互观看互为背景，两者的频道随时切换，有时几乎就是同时并存。我把翠竹小说中的一些段落直接拿到现实中构成情境，有时把像报告文学式的写实生活搬回小说，在两者之间相互涂抹叙述，让声音、语词在一个空间相遇在另一个空间分离，他们在一个时间获得重生在另一个时间获得绝望，经过相互的编撰、删改、保存之后还有再修改再保存再插入再引用再剪切，其中很可能因为某一个因素的变化就会导致事件的不同走向，并且这种方式没有结束点，在不经意的某一天，一个小小的想法让你又将文件打开，所有的这一切都将再次开始，反复的开始。这是我尝试的“文档剧场”，在写作的过程中已经完成了一部分表演而不只是完成了表演计划的设置。

W: 翠竹计划，与你此前的艺术计划的联系和分别是什么？

D：翠竹项目的着眼点还是从一个地域和人的关系出发，开始做方案前我查阅了一些资料，会问自己很多的问题，最终还是得有感而发，这点和我之前一系列作品的起点是一致的，都是因为一个情感的原点让我刻骨铭心或者感同身受，一定是像喝了很多白酒快要呕出来了，表演的框架才慢慢建立，很多时候最终的表演形式往往就是情感深处的那个涟漪直接告诉你该如何操作。不同之处在于这次项目的工作方法、观看的方式和之前的作品大相径庭，可以说这是一个文本编辑的表演，平时可以在书架上存档翻阅，这是我将长期进行下去的文档剧场计划。

W: 你的人生态度是什么？

D: 我想用表演去记录普通人，感觉每个小小生命的快乐和悲伤。我不知道生命的终点在哪一刻会终止，在我这个年纪已经有一些朋友突然的离世让我知道了偶然的意义。那么在活着的这段时间里尽量把自己觉得有意思的事情多完成一些，尽量逼迫自己做一些不太可能的任务。然后就是尽量多点时间给自己的父母，给朋友也更多点的快乐。

W: 艺术是对你重要吗？

D：艺术对我来说不是自我抚慰，在很多年前它就是我的武器，在初中的时候我就想成为一个作家，用笔当做是枪去和当时的自摸者打战。在经历了初恋的苦痛，婚姻的失败，朋友、老师的讥笑之后渐渐感觉到唯一不变的是原来的那份情感，我不能用热爱这样的词汇去修饰艺术，很多情况下是艺术给予我很多的礼物，它给我很多善良热情的朋友，它陪我度过那些艰难困苦的时光，它让我去世界的很多角落旅行，它让我在人群中慢慢克服自卑。这些都是艺术所带给我的东西，它已经成为我生活的一部分。

W: 你认为深圳的文化艺术氛围怎么样？

D: 最大的感受是可以蹦迪的地方很多，年轻人都比较爱去，整个氛围很轻松很散淡都在蓬勃发展之中。

W: 谈谈你对表演的理解、想法、困惑。

D：我想表演不单单是一种媒介，我的工作目标也不会仅仅是对于表演疆域的拓展，潜意识里还是有一些社会理想。以前看各种表演，我在想为什么我们自己的事情没人去演呢，怎么没有一个表演是和我有关呢，那我就开始自己去演吧，就从我所有的缺陷、自卑开始。

有时觉得当代艺术太沉闷了，我就想自己给自己捣个乱闹着玩，做表演就像一次次的战争，你知道要流血要牺牲但你还是勇往直前，要看得到伤亡。有很多的未知，要捕捉那些稍纵即逝的被你发现的东西，发现什么呢？并不是灯光打得多么的绚烂，运动路径多么的复杂，重要的是有没有对生活的质感。讲故事不是我的兴趣，纯形式研究也不是我的兴趣，把我对生活的感觉用表演的方式拱出来冲出来撞出来是我的兴趣。我越来越觉得一个好的表演不在于它说了一个什么真理，而在于它有多么深厚的感情。那么长的时间里让我学会表演的动作不再飘移不定，我更愿意静默停止，愿意直面现实，尽管有很多的不堪和难以忍受的龌蹉，我也不愿意这时候扬起一段音乐，让音符和想象慰藉我们深深的悲哀。

W：How was it like when you first came to Cui Zhu?

D : 12 years ago, I came to Cui Zhu for the first time. I remember I took a train from Hangzhou to Guangzhou first, then leave Guangzhou for Shenzhen by a bullet train, which was fashionable and not available in other cities back then. Subtropical plants blurring by out the window and faces with regional characteristics in the train gave me the true flavour of the south for the first time. The air made me moist all over, and the excitement, alien environment, together with the unknown future, brought me a feeling of first love.

I went to Shenzhen because I had a girlfriend then who lived in the neighborhood of Cui Zhu. In my vague impression there were high residential buildings, bright sunshine, and upright tall trees with wild and unkempt branches and leaves, which were just like actors and actresses in Japanese porn, being filling with desire and performance. I took my oil paintings there all the way in case they were damaged by others. At that time, with China Post the only option, express delivery was not as developed as it is today.

I used to go for groceries and necessities in Cui Zhu's supermarket, and go to a tea restaurant in the afternoon for some tea. Usually, I went somewhere by car, and low clouds might came into my eyes, which were sometimes too low to be like on the treetops. It seemed that I was waiting for a cloud. This is my most impressive memory.

W : How does Cui Zhu the community influence you, both visibly and imperceptibly? And why does it so impressive and unforgettable to you?

D : I had lived in the neighborhood of Cui Zhu for some time before, around where is the scope of my actions. I went out for either Cui Zhu or Huaqiang North back then. Among the many restaurants in Cui Zhu, I always eat at the same ones that I fancy back and forth. Sometimes I stayed longer at leisure and sit there thinking about upcoming work. Even now I can remember how strong the wind was on one day, and with what kind of posture a women on the street corner disappeared from my sight. It’s always details that connect fragments in our life into memories, and of course, there is love in the details.

W : How do you think of love?

D : Love is a quietly flowing clear stream that has been around you before you notice it; love is a mixture of oil painting, acrylics, water and mud; love is a journey that you never know the road ahead; love makes you rush like a leopard even if you know it’s likely to get hurt and bleed. Love, what a wonderful word!

W : Some artists need emotional stimulation to create. Does it happen to you?

D : Actually, I need it too. Some emotional stimulation are from my personal experience, some from the description of friends and strangers, and some, which stimulates me a lot as well, are experiences from reading novels and poems. I'm a keen observer of some subtle things, and observation is the starting point to the state of high spirit.

W : How do cities (environment, space, urban lifestyle) influence your artistic creation? Can you create if you don’t live in a city?

D : I used to live with my grandma in the countryside for sometime in my childhood. I remember, back then, there were large fields and wasteland and low houses with black tiles and white walls. The land and the sky were so large that seemed it was impossible to go from this side to the other within a day. So I often had fun in one place today and went to another the other day to help my grandma to carry her drinking. She was hoeing and transplanting rice seedlings in the field. I would serve them some tea with white porcelain bowls with blue edge if they were thirsty. The space gets smaller and the time runs slower when it comes to this moment. Perhaps it’s because that it was a specific plot in memory. That is, degree of concentration determines our feelings on the environment. In fact, the so-called countryside was a “city” in my recognition at young age, because there was only one kind of place in my mind. The countryside was the very place from where I had got some basic awareness about environment and space. I had lived there until it was time for primary school. Living in city on school days and returning back to countryside on holidays, then I travelled back and forth between the two. Such experience caused my interests in specific geographical locations, which gave me a better understanding on urban spaces and the comparison on lifestyles. The change of geographical position in the process of creation do impact on me, however, people has always been the major concern, so it is people related or connected with geographical location matters. The relationship between people and the local environment has my major attention, and careful observing and sincere experiencing are the channel leading into such relationships, which is also a constant stimulation for me. Therefore, I can follow my interests and to understand and research them further no matter they are rural areas or cities.

W : What have you learned from art academy?

D : When it comes to art academy, what really matters was exactly the people I met. I got my enlightenment on contemporary art from those friends. I had flipped through some pages when I found any interesting information at their homes, and I had heard some artistic works from them and communicated with them. I was used to read and use the internet for information, by the way, it was a time that mass information are available without vpn. It was such accumulation that awoke me to my true passion and let me know how to start a work and how to tell the merits and faults of a work, etc.. My friends encouraged and supported me so much. Then I began to make works and develop theatre festival and later to curate, all of which were inseparable from the teachers and friends who helped and inspired me in the China Academy of Fine Arts.

W : What kind of life experience was it like that you met Ms. Cui Zhu in Shenzhen this time?

D : I had no idea of what heart-stirring and breath-taking means until I saw her. Time seemed to be frozen at the moment we met. My body had a strong reaction but my mouth couldn’t say a word. It was basically a visceral performance with complicated emotions. Four days before the Biennial’s closure, in no attempt, I went to the original site and found out that the shop in Cui Zhu was still there. I had thought it would have been relocated for many years. I dared not and was embarrassed to look directly into the shop at first and just walked over in the hallway, still hiding my face with hands. After the feeling of intensity, I asked my friend to go into the shop and see. Then he told me that there was only one clerk, and Cui Zhu (pseudonym) was not there. So I moved slowly and walked in. When I was stepping toward the door, it was like tons of durian descending on me immediately. Because the picture I painted for her was hanging right opposite the entrance, which was about the shop’s trademark. I painted it with oil materials and it was basically as colorful as it was new. This scene dazed me and my head was like being circling around by ten thousand flies. The next minute thousands of durian were being thrown to me like bombs, leaving me no time to react. Later, I learned that the shop would be relocated at the end of the month. Maybe this is what destiny is. I told her that the purpose of this trip was the Shenzhen Theatre Biennial when I saw her, and I made a work for her and showed what I write for her. But I couldn't speak out my apology, all I did was to apologize by actions. She got a lot of business and work to deal with every day, but she was very tolerant in this case. She just asked lightly that why did I appear mysteriously and suddenly came to her. I was still very happy inside. I tried to do things for her if I can help, and we were just like old friends with years of absence. I feel that I’m so lucky anyway.

W : How’s the process of your creation like this time? And your creating method?

D : I started Cui Zhu novels before I went to Shenzhen, at the same time I began to record and edit pictures and texts in Wechat platform, all of which started with "Cui Zhu notes" as the beginning. What I posted on Wechat were some fragmented feelings and recording and association of ideas on the scenes, as well as pictures and words about memory. A total of 37 Cui Zhu notes have been posted.

During March 19th to 28th, the audience would gather in the lobby of the hotel that I live in at 1 pm every day, then I brought them to the preset destination for Cui Zhu. We went there by subway or taxi or sometimes on foot, talking about each other’s understanding of Shenzhen the city, as well as our lives and feelings. Sometimes I brought them to Cui Zhu Building waiting for a cloud for a whole afternoon.

After arriving at the destination, they would talk about what’s going on recently and maybe their work, and buy some drinks when thirsty and sit on the ground when tired, and maybe just look around the roadside for a while, which was like a spring outing with a purpose and an unknown outcome. This state might last 2 hours. The white clouds-filled sky turned gloomy instantly, because the sun hid itself into the clouds. Someone said there would be more clouds so I took them back without a second thought. Another day, I went to a neighborhood with my audience where I had once lived in and walk around following the faint memories and shared with them what I can recall. You know, sometimes memories are interwoven, I recalled things bit by bit with the help of the hints that buildings brought to me. Sometimes I had deja vu when I was in a certain circumstance or see an object, but I could hardly remember what I had said at that very place, which was like wordless slow motions in films. A few days later, we found Cui Zhu, then we helped her preparing for the rice noodle shop in the next few days, like buying materials, decorating the shop, locating the ornaments etc. before its opening. I symbolically set a lion dance scene in Cui Zhu novel, which took place in front of a sidewalk snack restaurant in an “urban village”. Later, as things change, I thought that the lion dance was the best match for the opening of the rice noodle shop. Finally, with the shop’s opening, my Cui Zhu project was brought into a temporary close.

As to the method for the work this time, I just let things develop step by step according to preset scenes, namely, from a memory to a certain time, from a certain time to a real action. The intertexture of the making of events and real performances activates the overlap between different time and makes them dispersed, juxtaposed and interlaced. Such a setting changes the way of watching, because it blurred the boundary of audience and I. We are each other’s background, being able to switch channels to either sides. Usually, it seems that we almost coexist at the same time.

I turned some passages from Cui Zhu novel into theatrical performances, just like turning realistic life in a reportage into a novel, letting the two styles interact with each other. Sounds and words meet in one space and separate in another, get rebirth at one time and despair at another. They compile and delete for each other, and after saving they may do more things like modifying, inserting, quoting, and cutting, during which things might be led to another direction due to the change of a certain factor.

There is no end for this. Maybe you will open the file again because of an new idea, then all things restarts, then restarts over and over again. This is the "file theater" which I’ve been experimenting. The process of writing has already completed a part of the performance rather than just a performance plan.

W : What are the connections and differences between the Cui Zhu Project and your previous art projects?

D : The Cui Zhu project focuses on the relationship between region and people. I consulted some information and asked myself a lot of questions before making a plan, then got inspired. Arising from my unforgettable affections or empathetic feelings, this coincided exactly with the origin of my previous series creations. The framework of performance establish when I got the feeling wanting vomit just like after drinking too much liquor. The final presentation shows the way it is in that ripples deep within told you to do so. It is the unique working method and the way of watching made this project so different from previous ones. Actually it’s fair to say that this is a performance of text editing which can be archived on a bookshelf ordinarily. The file theater is my long-term project.

W : What is your attitude towards life?

D : I’d like to use theatrical performance to record ordinary people and experience the happiness and sadness of each single life. At my age, some friends’ sudden death taught me what accident is. I don't know when will my life cease, but I’ll try to do things that I’m interested in as much as possible and force myself to finish some tasks that seem impossible. Moreover, It’s better to stay with our parents more often and bring happiness to our friends.

W : Is art important to you?

D : Art doesn’t mean self-consolation to me, instead, It has been my weapon since many years ago. In junior high school, I wished to be a writer to fight with my pen, just like a soldier fight with a gun. Having been experienced painful first love, a failed marriage, and sneers from friends and teachers, I realize, gradually, that the only thing remains unchanged is the original emotion. I can't describe art with words like “love”. Because in many cases, art gave me a lot of gifts, brought me kind and enthusiastic friends, accompanied me going through hard times, and enabled me traveling all over the world and helped me overcoming the sense of inferiority in the crowd. These are what art has brought to me, which has become a part of my life.

W : How do you think of the cultural and artistic atmosphere in Shenzhen?

D : The overriding feeling is that there are many places for clubbing, where young people enjoy. And of course they have very relaxing and pleasant atmosphere, and they were flourishing.

W : Please talk about your understanding, thoughts, and confusion about performance.

D : I think performing is more than a medium, and my goal of work is not defined to only expanding the territory of performance, subconsciously, I have my social ideals. After watching various performances, I was wandering that why don’t people do any performance about our own life? Why isn't there a performance concerning me? I’ll do it by myself then, and I’ll just start it from my own default and self-abasement.

Sometimes contemporary art was too dull for me, so I started to perform for amusing myself. Performances are like wars and you know there would be blood, sacrifice and casualties, but you’ll still heading on it. There are a lot of things unknown, and you need to find and capture those fleeting things. And find what? It’s not about how brilliant the lighting is or how complicated the movement trail is, instead, it’s about a sense of life. Storytelling is not my interest, neither pure form research. What I am interested in is to make the feelings inside my body dashing out by the form of performance. I’ve been increasingly aware that a good performance does not lie in if it tells a truth, but in how deep emotion it has. I’ve learned from such a long time that there are not only move actions in performing, rather, I prefer silence and standstill and facing up to the reality. Even though there are numerous sufferings and unbearable filthy things inside ourselves, I don’t want our sadness in life be treated randomly by a piece of music or mere imagination.